Posted to: IMDB "Saved!" Message Board

[A Christian writes:] Christianity is the faith that makes sense...

Christianity says that the vast majority of mankind which now lives or has ever existed will be damned because they don't believe that Jesus is the son of God.

It says than an omnipotent, omniescent, Universe-spanning being requires us to love him freely through our own choice - or he'll get jealous and punish us with eternal hellfire.

It tells us to be overwhelmed by the love of God when things go well for us - but that it's our own fault for being born sinners when things go wrong.

Clearly you are using some definition of the words "makes sense" of which I have previously been unaware.

PTET

Posted to: IMDB "Saved!" Message Board

Hello Kar202

Your faith is obviously very important to you. I have no desire to cause you pain. You have your opinions:

* "Evolution has many flaws"
* The Earth is ~6,000 years old
* "Most Christians are hypocrites and fakes..."
* You are "the chief of sinners" who marvels "at God's grace"
* You believe every verse in the Bible
* Most people - and most so-called Christians - are eternally damned

Then there are some things you say which are just odd:

* "Few Catholics are actually devout" (Huh!?)
* "talk.origins is hardly respectable" (You never say why...)
* I supposedly "hate Christianity" because it infringes my "carnal desires"


...And then you say things which are just plainly and simply *lies*:

Lie #1: "many scientists today... are biblical creationists"
Fact: Around ~0.14% of US earth & life scientists are Biblical Creationists
See: here

Lie #2: "many evolutionists are beginning to consider intelligent design"
Fact: The NCSE's "Project Steve" shows this claim to be simply ridiculous
See: here

Lie #3: evolution is a "materialistic faith"
Fact: Most Christian & Jewish organisations accept the scientific view of evolution
See: here

Lie #4: "Evolutionists have yet to show ONE instance of new information being added to the genome"
Fact: The scientific literature says otherwise
See: here

Lie #5 : "Already the public school systems are beginning to teach intelligent design side by side with evolution"
Fact: The US courts in "Freiler v. Tangipahoa Parish Board" ruled that proposals for teaching "intelligent design" were equivalent to "creation science" and thus unconstitutional
See: here


You don't have to believe that the Earth is billions of years old, Kar202, or that life has evolved through common descent. But it is *dishonest* to pretend that anything other than a proportionately tiny number of Fundamentalist scientists agree with you.

I call you a liar, Kar202, because that is what you are. You present a fantasy world where Behe's "Intelligent Design" has significant scientific support and somehow helps Biblical Creationism. It doesn't - Behe accepts evolution through common descent, and specifically says that ID can't say anything about the creator. (ID is a crock too, but for different reasons). You claim that evolutionary theory comes from atheism. It doesn't. You claim that science has no evidence for evolution. Scientists overwhelmingly say otherwise.

If you want to be more "Christlike", Kar202, I suggest you stop *lying*.

PTET

Posted to: IMDB "Saved!" Message Board

[A Christian writes:] If evolution was so safe, so true, so accepted by open minded individuals, I would have never became a creationist. I went to the public schools. I was indoctrinated in evolution along with every other student. I knew nothing about creationism. Furthermore, I was indoctrinated in the home: my father is a master geologist and subscribes to evolution. I loved dinosaurs as a kid and had the entire geologic timeline memorized, going back 4.5 billion years. I know evolutionary history quite well, I understand how it supposedly works. When I encountered certain problems, however, such as information theory, I began to research with an open mind and found that, indeed, evolution has many flaws.

You think so? How on Earth does that justify your blatant and repeated lies about what scientists as a whole think about evolution?

Atheism is built on naturalism, which is a philosophy with its own assumptions. Take any entry level social science course and you will understand this.

Again with the lies! Did some part of your brain just switch off when you became a Fundamentalist? Will you accept and state openly that most Christian scientists accept evolution as science teaches?

Anyway, appealing to talk.origins is hardly respectable, so let's forget the linking.

Again with the ad hominems! You have never provided any reason for your disdain for TalkOrigins. Since it merely reflects overwhelming scientific opinion, I can only think that it causes so much trauma to your world-view that you can't cope with it.

If you want to debate a specific point in the CvE controversey, please ask. Email me at w00tw00thaha@hotmail.com or start a new thread. I really am not so much interested in feeling "right" for my own glory as I am simply sharing Christ with you, because Christ gave me a joy that carnal pleasures could never provide.

Thanks for the offer, but I think you need to work out your sexual hang-ups for yourself.

PTET

Posted to: IMDB "Saved!" Message Board

[A Christian writes:] Anyone who hates Christianity this much must surely know it is true, otherwise why would they be so angry? Perhaps because it infringes on their carnal desires?

I don't "hate Christianity". I do hate ignorance, bigotry and hypocrisy, three things which Fundamentalism of all flavours - religious and secular - show in abundance.

Just imagine, if Christianity was true, you wouldn't be allowed induldge in carnal lusts, such as sexual immorality. Doesn't that just boil your blood? If I was that in love with my sin, I would no doubt be attacking Christianity with such vitriol, too.

I don't worry myself with thousands-of-years old myths and sexual hang-ups - or ad hominem attacks from self-righteous bigots.

Since you do apparently believe in Christianity, you should perhaps worry yourself about the lies you insist upon repeating in post after post about what scientists and academics say about evolution, religion and the Bible.

Most Christians do not believe that the Bible is the final arbiter on matters of science. Most Christian scientists are happy to accept that the Earth is billions of years old, and that mankind has evolved though common descent.

You don't have to believe these things yourself, Kar202. What I object to is your continued denial of what others believe. The simple truth is that Fundamentalism *lies* about what others think and say.

Isn't that sinful? Isn't that wrong?

PTET

Posted to: IMDB "Saved!" Message Board

[A Christian writes:] So mock away if you like, and to those who feel they are being parodied instead of getting all defensive, ask yourself what it is that makes them make fun of us so much.

Because you are pompous arrogant book-worshippers with a persecution complex, perhaps?

You give a pretty accurate description of Christianity yourself: "a 1700 year old doctrine and dogma and politically mandated ideal"

Almost every aspect of Christianity can be traced to before or after the supposed time of Jesus. The sermon on the mount, for example, is strikingly similar to the teachings of the Qumran "Teacher of Righteousness", who pre-dated Jesus. Some of the forged letters attributed to Paul weren't written for decades after his death.

Of course, there are two further aspects of the teachings of Jesus which you seem to know very little about - humility and inclusiveness.

You know what would be *really* nice? A "rapture" of the self-righteous. With all the Fundamentalists gone, the world would be a much safer, saner and less whiney place.

PTET

I've made a rather vitriolic post to the IMBD "Saved" message board about Creationist lies. Read it for yourself.

Gosh! It's been six months since I posted here. I guess I've been doing other things. For a while at least, dealing with Fundamentalists doesn't seem to have been the first thing on my agenda... Anyway, I'm back, and with the new Blogger tools you can leave your own comments in response to my posts. So go ahead - make my day!

I've posted a couple of messages to the IMDB message board for the new movie Saved! - check them out...

To much new to mention - check out my main index page.

I've posted a new work-in-progress page entitled PTET answers Tektonics. There are also minor updates to Exploring the Exodus myth and Testing the reliability of the New Testament.

I'm back on line after a long absense. I've updated some of the links in my blog archive, but older links here may be dead. You can, however, find everything at my new URL: ptet.dubar.com.

I've been rather tied up with work recently... Hence the lack of postings ;> However, you see some interesting thoughts I've been putting together on The Exodus Myth at Evidence.info.

I've had problems with blogger, so my log is a little out of date. I've made various minor changes here and there. The big news, however, is that Tektonics seem to have taken an interest in PTET... Now isn't that nice ;>

Updated my Links, Quotes and Was Jesus Christ a real historical figure? pages.

Updated The myth of the "Virgin Birth" as a fulfillment of prophecy to include a quotation from Josephus which may explain the mistranslation of "maiden" in the book of Messiah.

Updated Reasons not to believe Hugh Ross's Creation Model with links to What does the Bible say about creation from ReligiousTolerance, and a critique of Ross' Hebrew and interpretation of the Bible, by Mark Perakh: A Crusade of Arrogance.

Added links to my usenet postings.

Updates following some helpful comments on the Evidence.Info message board:
A survey of the Christian Hell...
Why the 'Christian God' is immoral, needy and irrational

I've begun a major update of my page on the composition of the New Testament, with information from from The Journal of Biblical Studies confirming that it is impossible to date any of the canonical gospels before the second century CE...

Updated 7Q5: Is it 'Mark' and does it matter? with a quote from Thiede implying that the scriputres are the final arbiter of their own authority...

Major update of The Resurrection on Trial with a discussion on the unreliability of the Gospel accounts.